Psychologist Jamil Zaki: Empathy Is a Skill You Can Train

Jamil Zaki was eight when his parents began a divorce that took four years. To stay close to both of them, he had to work, every day, to understand two people who could no longer understand each other. He calls it his empathy gym.

Jamil is a professor of psychology at Stanford University, where he directs the Stanford Social Neuroscience Lab. He has published over 100 peer-reviewed articles and two books, The War for Kindness and Hope for Cynics. His lab's experiments show that empathy can be trained: people who believe they can grow it work harder at it and improve over time. He also calls himself a recovering cynic.

I lived the era of stack ranking at Microsoft, when colleagues were graded against each other on a bell curve, and I was very glad when we retired it. Jamil explained what the science says such a system does to people, and why real empathy means holding people accountable rather than letting them off the hook. Then he turned the tables and asked me whether learning to ask questions instead of giving answers had been uncomfortable for me. It was, and I told him about the most embarrassing moment of my professional life.

In our conversation, we explore:
→ Empathy as a skill: what his lab found, and how to turn a belief into a plan and daily habits
→ Kind systems: why people think they are alone in wanting more empathy at work, and how leaders can change the norm
→ Stack ranking, cynicism and accountability: why pitting people against each other backfires
→ Artificial empathy: why chatbots now sound more caring than strangers, and the risk of AI that only tells us we are right
→ Young people, self-criticism and hope, and three practices to start tomorrow morning

"It's like a suit of armor that you put on, but instead of protecting you, it suffocates you." Jamil Zaki, on cynicism

If you have ever been told that empathy is soft, or felt that cynicism keeps you safe, this conversation is for you.

Jamil's work:
Website: https://www.jamil-zaki.com/
The War for Kindness: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/550616/the-war-for-kindness-by-jamil-zaki/
Hope for Cynics: https://www.hachettebookgroup.com/titles/jamil-zaki/hope-for-cynics/9781538743065/

🎧 Related episodes:

• Daniel Goleman (2024), the three kinds of empathy and why empathic concern builds trust: https://www.buzzsprout.com/1798971/episodes/14940410
• Kim Cameron (2022), positively energizing leaders: https://www.buzzsprout.com/1798971/episodes/10627686
• Rana el Kaliouby (2025), human-centric AI and machines that read emotions: https://www.buzzsprout.com/1798971/episodes/16982786

New here? Subscribe to Positive Leadership & You for one edition a month, written for leaders who want to build companies and communities people thrive in. https://www.linkedin.com/newsletters/positive-leadership-you-6970390170017669121/

Want to go deeper? Listen to the Positive Leadership Podcast on your favourite platform. 130+ conversations with the leaders, founders and thinkers shaping a more human future of work.

🎧 Apple Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/fr/podcast/positive-leadership/id1574911588
🎤 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1EdnJcYgh9nXPTFJ5euOBf